(no subject)

[mstakenidentity]

This rant by Joss Whedon was linked to on a community I'm in. I don't quite agree with his theory (one of the other women in the comm refered to it as the MIGHTY WOMB WARRIOR theory) but I thought it was a good read. I like that his rants can run into each other.

Comments

[vox-diabolica.livejournal.com]

What are your opinions on the article?

[mstakenidentity.livejournal.com]

I think he's quite US-centric, a tad racist and quite self-satisfied, I also think some of his points are good. I certainly think the conclusions he draws about the digital age are interesting.

[vox-diabolica.livejournal.com]

But surely you know that left-wing, moral relativist Americans are the most evolved people on Earth!

[fnoo.livejournal.com]

It's a real shame that us centrist, moral relativist Australians get no love.

[vox-diabolica.livejournal.com]

Would you like me to cure you of your moral relativism?

[fnoo.livejournal.com]

Only if you can work Hitler in to the argument somehow.

I'm not a real moral relativist, I just play one on the internet.

I think I agree with you, but want to hear your thoughts.

[thekit.livejournal.com]

http://thekit.livejournal.com/795813.html

Re: I think I agree with you, but want to hear your thoughts.

[mstakenidentity.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I certainly think he is oversimplifying what one can do about injustice (possibly because in a blog he's pandying to the lowest common denominator). Actually that is probably my main problem with the whole thing; over-simplifications. An American film trailer does not equate to the amateur filming of a woman being stoned to death. Misogyny can not be boiled down simply to "womb-envy", just as a woman can not, and should not, be seen purely as a womb.

Re: I think I agree with you, but want to hear your thoughts.

[thekit.livejournal.com]

Reflecting on the response to this... his charge into the blogosphere seems to have generated more discussions than the original video did.

That is disturbing.

I get a terrible feeling that if he'd just said "here's a video of an atrocity, and btw everybody seems to have a camera phone" there'd be nothing to forward on and the footage would probably have languished in a user-contrib snuff-porn site like Ogrish.com.

Gross simplifications for the win?

Re: I think I agree with you, but want to hear your thoughts.

[vass]

Chris, sorry for doing this on your LJ. *Someone* closed comments to his entry, so I'm going to have to call him on it here.

*then* there will be a chance for women to be able to ask for their rights.

Ask for? Do you think that's how people win their rights? By asking for them? I think you need to recheck your history - and check your privilege.

And while it is well-known that the status of women in a country is often a barometer of that country's economic and social health, the idea that this means the status of women is an issue that should wait until the rest is cleaned up is so wrong-headed and backwards that, frankly, I can't think of anything non-violent to say to it, and can only suggest once again that you CHECK YOUR FUCKING PRIVILEGE. NOW.

Re: I think I agree with you, but want to hear your thoughts.

[thekit.livejournal.com]

I kept my post on the honour killing comment free because I wanted Chris to get the credit for finding it and be able to see the threads on Joss Wheedon's Womb envy theory all in one place.

I would respectfully request that we start a thread on my male privilege and male privilege in general at the link below, so as to deconvolve the two issues.

http://thekit.livejournal.com/797153.html

Re: I think I agree with you, but want to hear your thoughts.

[damien6.livejournal.com]

I agree with pretty much everything you're saying.
It is immensely disrespectful to equate the death of an actual person with a movie, and the article is kinda simplistic in other ways (womb envy?).

I suppose that the concept 'the torture of women is entertaining' persists in both his culture and the culture he is discussing is worthy of comment, even if that concept is expressed in very different ways. If for no other reason than so his readers won’t be able to comfortably distance themselves from what is going on.


And I don't think that entertainment and real life can be entirely divorced from each other.
A man believing that women deserve to be tortured, or that the torture of women is erotic does not necessarily equate with that man actually torturing women, but there’s a connection there.

Movies like Captivity validate men who believe that torturing women is erotic. They desensitise people in general to the idea.
And they do harm women. Having those trailers and posters around, having a movie like that exist is a giant ‘fuck you’ to all women. If those images don’t resonate with something that happened to them in real life (similar in intent if not in intensity), it will no doubt resonate with a million cautionary tales.

That material is remarkably similar to political propaganda under dictatorships.
This is what you should believe. This is what you should be afraid of. Don’t you dare walk the streets at night. Don’t you dare be successful or sexy or deny some man sex. This is what we think of you.

And I don’t buy the whole capitalist argument for the existence of these movies/tv shows/ whatever. Not when there are massive untapped markets for the kinds of stories people would want to watch. For the kinds of people who would want to watch them. Everything else is influence by political agendas, why do people claim pure as driven snow capitalism when it comes to misogynist cultural products? (Not that you do, but it happens often.)